Posts by Disillusioned JW

35

Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection

by truth_b_known in

in the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.

this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.

i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeze, I don't see how your link about allegations about Carrier relates to the rest of the content of your post, thus why did you post that link?

It saddens me that Dr. Richard Carrier, PhD. has apparently engaged in certain kinds of sexual behavior, and that he is alleged to be hypocritical about some of those matters. I was shocked when I learned of such things since I have been deeply impressed by what I have read in his books that prove there is no personal god. I also had a favorable impression of him when I met him in person.

I read much of his book called Sense and Goodness Without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism and the book greatly impresses me. It makes an extremely strong case against the existence of personal god, especially that of a 3 O type of god. It also makes a good case for a basis for ethics that is consistent with metaphysical naturalism and with living by knowledge of science.

I met Carrier in person at a lecture by him presented at a meeting held by a Humanist organization in the city in \which I was born. His lecture was impressive and I talked to him face to face in person after his lecture. My impression of him back then was that he is a good man and a very smart man. I was very impressed by what he said about syncretism in its relation to how Christian came to be. The lecture was about Carrier's book called On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt (2014). I also read much of what he wrote in some books edited by John W. Loftus and I am also very impressed with that content.

30

Jw's sending me invites and letters, I don't get it.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

first off, i have made it real clear with jw's my thoughts on being a jw.

i'm out, there is no coming back.. second, i'm on their " do not call list" .. so why now all of a sudden my mailbox is getting bombed 💣 by their memorial invites and letters?.

don't they follow their do not call list?

Disillusioned JW

The two JW letters I received both had the return address of the KH I last attended, but one of the enclosed letters also had a personal email address of a JW (which was also for her household). Thus perhaps some of the letters you received also included a personal email address or personal phone number, but the only way to know for sure is to open the envelopes and to read at least part of of each of the enclosed letters.

21

The senseless ''non partakers'' Jesus Memorial

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

matthew 26: 18-20 .

18 he said: “go into the city to so-and-so and say to him, ‘the teacher says: “my appointed time is near; i will celebrate the passover with my disciples at your home.19 so the disciples did as jesus instructed them and prepared for the passover.20 when evening came, he was reclining at the table with the 12 disciples.. only jesus and his 12 disciples were present at the passover .if jesus wanted observers, he would of had some sit down at his last meal and requested that they be present that day and future passovers.

why does the wts feel that observers ( non partakers ) need to attend the yearly memorial?

Disillusioned JW

John 3:3, 5, and 7 are very important verses, if hypothetically speaking the Bible is true. JWs who want to be in the kingdom of God, even if as earthly subjects of the kingdom, should very carefully think about those verses. Those verses are saying that in order to enter into the kingdom of God people must become "born again" and/or "born from above" (the latter being an alternate translation) and be born from spirit.

By the way when the gospel of Matthew says the "kingdom of heaven" instead of the "kingdom of god" it isn't saying the kingdom is only in heaven. It is using a substitute word for "God" because that gospel book is written for a Jewish audience - including Jews were were cautious about often using even the title/name "God". The Gospel writer might also be saying "kingdom of heaven" to convey the idea that the kingdom receives its authority from heaven (that is, from God in heaven).

If JWs were to realize that the Christian Greek Scriptures is speaking to all Christians and all prospective Christians when it talks about being "born again"/"born from above", "born from spirit", being part of the new covenant, and being sons/daughters of God, then it would likely make reading the Christian Greek Scripture impart a much greater emotional impact to them. At least that perspective has such an effect upon me when I (despite being an atheist ex-JW) read it from that perspective while imagining that the Christian Greek Scriptures is true!

From the point of view of the NT being true, the WT is doing a tremendous disservice to JWs (and prospective JWs) when it teaches that only a literal 144,000 humans become part of the new covenant!

30

Jw's sending me invites and letters, I don't get it.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

first off, i have made it real clear with jw's my thoughts on being a jw.

i'm out, there is no coming back.. second, i'm on their " do not call list" .. so why now all of a sudden my mailbox is getting bombed 💣 by their memorial invites and letters?.

don't they follow their do not call list?

Disillusioned JW

Foolednomore, I'm very surprised that you are receiving so many letters from JWs.

The idea of sending it "Return to Sender" good but it would be wrong to write "Wrong Address" on it if it was actually addressed to the right address and to the actual person who lives at that address.It might violate US postal use laws to write "Wrong Address" if the address and addressee are not wrong.

I think one can write "Refused" on it, and thus "Refused - Return to Sender" on it. Keep in mind that the post office will only return letters to the sender if the mail was sent First Class (or Priority Mail?), instead of by a discounted shipping rate. But, letters sent by the JWs (in the USA) for witnessing purposes are probably all first class mail.

The idea of writing things on the back of the envelop as suggested by truth_be_known also sounds good to me, except I think one should be careful of what ones writes. Otherwise, the JW elders might get the idea that the addressee of the letter is now an apostate, instead of merely an inactive disinterested person.

Foolednomore, here are some reasons why I think you might be getting the letters (though the ideas don't explain why you are getting so many) despite requesting to be on the don't call list, and what might be a better approach to stop receiving the letters.

- Perhaps the letters are being sent by people in a congregation which you never attended, though likely from the same Kingdom Hall. If so, those people probably wouldn't know you are on the "Do Not Call" list (unless your home is in the territory of the congregation of those who sent you the letters).

- I think the "Do Not Call" list is usually kept with the territory card that is used for door to door witnessing. If that is the case the people writing the letters, even if from the congregation you attended, likely wouldn't know you are on the "Do Not Call" list.

- It might be advantageous to browse through the contents of the letters to see if an email address is provided by some of the senders. If so, then if you email the person to stop contacting you, and to notify the keeper of the "do not call" list of such, while stating you will never return to being an active JW, maybe that will stop the letters. However if you email the people, then that might result in receiving emails from them.

- In the past few years I have only received two letters from JWs (other than from my mom and sister). The second letter had a personal email address and I sent an email to that person. The person then sent me an email saying she would inform someone at the Kingdom Hall to make sure I stop getting such letters. I did not receive a further email from the JW (nor from any others) and thus far I have not received further postal mail letters from JWs (other than from my mom and sister, of course).

32

Who are the 144,000? Considering the immediate context of Revelation chapter 7

by raymond frantz in

who are the 144,000?

a critical examination of the teaching of the 144,000 from the perspective of an ex jx considering context and other references .this is from a series of videos called new light where i scrutinise all the major teachings of the watchtower.. https://youtu.be/aaseuzr-sxs.

Disillusioned JW

I think that idea of Abraham being described as in heaven was because at the time there was the idea of a section of Sheol (namely the idea of righteous Jews in Sheol being in a separate place of Sheol, away from the unrighteous) being lifted up to heaven. That special place in Sheol was thought of as Paradise by some Jews in the 1st century CE.

6

New York Times article on first release of NWT

by cabasilas in

i just discovered a clipping from an old new york times article on the release of the first nwt volume.

it was tucked inside a nwt volume i purchased on ebay.

i thought it interesting and made a pdf of it.

Disillusioned JW

compound complex, for example in 1955 the WT released the book called You May Survive Armageddon into God's New World. In 1953 they released a book called "New Heavens and a New Earth". They also released the following booklets in the 1950s.

Evolution Versus the New World (1950)
After Armageddon—God's New World (1953)
Basis for Belief in a New World (1953)
Can You Live Forever in Happiness on Earth? (1950)

5

Different versions of the NWT?

by HowTheBibleWasInvented in

having noted in the last 3 days a romour of a new revisal of the nwt etc i thought i would see if i have all the nwts in my collection:.

1. christian greek scriptures.

4. job- song of solomon.

Disillusioned JW

There was also a 1970 revision of the 1961 revision of the NWT. There was also a 1981 revision of the main scripture text of the 1971 revision.

28

Where did Christendom go? They HATED our bible in 1950...just read...

by oompa in

jw
friends

the articles on the jw-cd which only go back to 1950 where we fought back the attacks.

i do not understand why they did not continue to blast our bible since it is such a fraud....down south in usa churches teach members how to refute dubs at their door.....but why did they stop blasting the nwt?

it is sooooooo easy to show a dub there is a bunch of made up crap in it.....i may have to help my local chruches.....if you need more info about the horrible fraud parts, feel free to pm me.........................oompa......even elders dont know

Disillusioned JW

Over the years I have come across multiple copies (some even brand new) of the NWT in the books section of local thrift stores; they are thus sold in some secondhand stores.

There are many very good qualities of the NWT, but my view is influenced by me having been raised by JW parents, with me as a child reading and studying from the 1961 and 1970 revisions of the NWT (and one study book quoting from some volumes of the 1950s NWT). At age 8 I enrolled in the theocratic ministry school and began giving Bible readings to the congregation. I later became baptized as a JW in the 1980s while a teenager and I later became a regular pioneer and a ministerial servant. [But I am now an ex-JW and an atheist.]

When I first picked up a KJV Bible and an ASV Bible (ones published by the WT which I ordered in the 1990s from the literature counter when I was the literature servant of my congregation) I found some of their archaic wording difficult to understand. Likewise, years earlier while in high school I found it extremely hard to understand the 'early modern English' language used in Shakespeare's plays. Previously (except maybe on very rare occasions) I had never read thee, thou, thine, didst, and other archaic words, and I had difficulty in figuring out precisely what they meant. As a result I greatly preferred the contemporary language of the NWT.

5

Different versions of the NWT?

by HowTheBibleWasInvented in

having noted in the last 3 days a romour of a new revisal of the nwt etc i thought i would see if i have all the nwts in my collection:.

1. christian greek scriptures.

4. job- song of solomon.

Disillusioned JW

There were at least three editions of the Christian Greek Scriptures prior to 1952. There was a first edition of 1950, a Second Edition in 1950, and the Revised Edition of 1951.

In 1963 there was under one cover a compilation edition consisting of the 1951 Christian Greek Scriptures and the five Hebrew volumes, with revisions to some of the dates in the "Table of the Books of the Bible", and the exclusions of numerous maps and charts. Perhaps it also included other changes.

In 1985 there was a revision of the Kingdom Interlinear, incorporating the scripture text of the 1984 Christian Greek Scriptures, and having revisions to the Foreword of the earlier Kingdom Interlinear.

6

New York Times article on first release of NWT

by cabasilas in

i just discovered a clipping from an old new york times article on the release of the first nwt volume.

it was tucked inside a nwt volume i purchased on ebay.

i thought it interesting and made a pdf of it.

Disillusioned JW

compound complex, I think the phrase 'New World" in the title of the translation, has to do with the WT expectation (in the 1950s) of the great nearness of a paradise Earth in which righteous predominates, during a 1,000 year period of Christ reigning. Think of the NT verses about 'a New Heavens and a New Earth'.